I love God more than my children
30 Comments
Author: Moxie
Tags: Child Abandonment, evolution, Jehovah's Witnesses, Shunning, Watchtower
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Yesterday I had a conversation with my Mom on the phone. It’s been a very long time since we last spoke. Every conversation brings mixed feelings. On one hand there is the joy of speaking with someone you miss and care about very deeply, and, on the other hand there is the frustration that comes from our separation.
I know my mother agonizes over ‘losing’ her children (since 2 out of 3 of us have left the religion) and yet she has a firm resolve and stubborn devotion to this organization, even at the cost of her children. Those of you who read this blog will know that recently my youngest brother came to live with me. He was kicked out of our parent’s house because he didn’t want to go to the JW meetings anymore. I see him going through some difficult phases and so my parent’s rejection of him (when he needs them most) makes me so angry, more so than when they did it to me.
Needless to say, this conversation was bound to happen. We started talking about my brother and how to help and support him and then things sort of shifted. Can you blame me for being upset when my parents abandon their children for the sake of a kooky cult? Coming from an Atheist, I understand this was doubly hard for my poor mom to stomach, but none the less, after 9 long years of politely biting my tongue, I had it out. I simply can’t come to terms with the fact that she values a mythical deity more than her children who are real flesh and blood.
I kept replaying our conversation over and over in my head and decided to write it down. So this is my attempt to purge my thoughts……
Daughter (Atheist): “Mom, what if you’re wrong? It breaks my heart that for all these years we have missed out on a relationship because your religion tells you that you can’t have a relationship with Chris and I. What if you’re wrong and the sacrifice you’re making is for nothing? Have you ever even asked yourself that?”
Mother (Jehovah’s Witness): “No I haven’t. But what if I’m right?”
Daughter: “If you’re right you just might win yourself a ticket to paradise and all it cost you was abandoning your children. I’m not saying this to hurt you, but that seems completely selfish to me. I would die to keep my children safe. No one could tell me I had to abandon or shun them.
Mother: “I love God more than my children.”
Daughter: “If you’re wrong though about your religion or god, you will have sacrificed everything, including your children and all for absolutely nothing.”
Mother: I made a commitment to Jehovah for my whole life.”
Daughter: “And what of your commitment to your children? Isn’t that for life too?”
Mother: “I didn’t know I would become a Jehovah’s Witness when I had children. We shouldn’t be talking about religion, this is wrong. It’s obvious that you’ve been mislead, you’ve forgotten everything you were taught.”
Daughter: “No mom, I haven’t forgotten. I understand the religion more now than I ever did. And all it took was reading the bible and the Watchtower literature to know that it is not ‘The Truth’. All you’re allowed to read is the what the Watchtower prints. You don’t check sources or confirm anything. When was the last time you read the bible? Have you ever read it, cover to cover, without using Watchtower literature?”
Mother: [no answer]
[Long Pause]
Daughter: “Did you know that the Watchtower actually misquotes scientists and other experts and prints misleading information? You wouldn’t know that because you take for granted everything they say.”
Mother: “Like what!?”
Daughter: “Like the creation book. They misquote many experts and scientists trying to disprove evolution. Many of these people have responded to the book saying that they were in fact misquoted or misrepresented.”
Mother: “Ah! You’ve been reading apostate literature. You’re obviously reading the wrong information.”
Daughter: “And what is the right information? Watchtower publications?”
Mother: “No not just that, you should read real history books, not just apostate opinions.”
Daughter: “Seriously Mom I find that insulting. You’re insinuating that I can’t critically examine information for myself. You have to understand, I want facts and evidence. I always do my due diligence make sure that my opinions are based on concrete information, that I’ve checked and double checked. I will not base my opinion on what one person or one publisher says. I’ve learned my lesson.”
Mother: “No, I’m saying that you should go to the library and read books, not just read stuff on the internet.”
Daughter: “You’re right, you can’t just go by what’s on the internet. That’s why I read really, really big history books. I mean, do you honestly believe that we have only been on this planet for 6,000 years?
Mother: “Yes I do.”
Daughter: “So what about all the evidence that our homo erectus ancestors had been on the planet over a million years ago? What about fossil evidence, DNA evidence? What does it say about a god who let other homo species go extinct, but had a divine purpose for the homo sapien?”
Mother: “It is all a hoax to confuse people, it’s not true.”
Daughter: “So thousands of scientists are all in on a huge conspiracy?”
Mother: “Yes.”
[Pause]
Mother: “It’s really clear that you’ve been confused with apostate literature.”
Daughter: “Mom, this has nothing to do with apostates or Jehovah’s Witnesses. I don’t believe in any religion, I’m not singling out the Witnesses here. My beliefs are based on facts and evidence. Opinion holds no weight with me. I simply ask you, where is the evidence for your religion? Or will you just say that you have to have faith?”
Mother: “Well, faith has evidence to support it. It’s not just based on nothing.”
Daughter: “What evidence? Look, I understand faith and the desire for a god who brings salvation. We all have a strong survival instinct, humans are just more complex animals. Since we are self aware and know we will die, our instinct of self preservation leads us to believe that we survive our death in some way. It makes perfect sense!”
Mother: “No, we are made that way. We have a desire to live forever because Jehovah put that in our hearts.”
Daughter: “Mom, every animal tries to preserve it’s life, if we didn’t have a survival instinct we’d be unable to survive. There’s nothing magical or godly about it. Seriously though, I would love to believe in a resurrection or any kind of life after death. But I simply will not delude myself into believing something that doesn’t have a shred of evidence, just to make myself feel better. Especially if that warm and fuzzy feeling meant that I listened to some religion that told me to abandon and shun my kids!”
Mother: “I guess it all comes down to whether you believe the bible or not, and you don’t. We can’t talk about this, you’re going to ruin everything we believe.”
Daughter: “How could I ruin what you believe?”
Mother: “I just can’t do this.”
[Hangs Up]
Then I get a call back today…
Mother: “I didn’t want to leave things the way I did yesterday. I’m sorry I hung up on you.”
Daughter: “Thanks Mom, I love you. I want you to know that in spite of everything else, I love you.”
Mother: “I love you too. Goodbye.”
(1 votes, average: 5.00 out of 5)
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Sounds like you handled that nicely.
That’s so terribly sad. I’m so sorry that you and your brother are getting the shitty end of the stick. I do think you handled the situation expertly. It’s just a damn shame your mother is so blind and scared to think for herself.
Sorry to hear of the poor relationship with your mom. Religion can be tough on families, when all of the parties aren’t in agreement.
If she’s right about the JW religion (and for the record, I don’t believe she is for a second), then her beliefs would be correct, although she may not be handling them correct. So do try to see things from HER perspective, b/c as SHE sees it, she’s doing the right thing.
From your perspective, as a self-described atheist, she isn’t right, so from YOUR perspective, she has it all wrong.
What if there was a 3rd scenario - where there was a correct religion (albeit not JW), and you acknowledged it? Do you acknowledge that could be a possibility?
It’s sad that she is accusing you of not reading real history books, when she likely has not looked into any secular sources herself.
Phrew! And I thought my folks were loony.
I wholeheartedly agree with Matt. Well-handled.
Oh, Moxie…I feel much empathy with you. Its similar to my own parents. My own mother told me that “it would have been better if I had cheated on my wife than to do what i did”, and that I am “stupid for not believing in God anymore”.
Well, I still believe the JWs were right about one thing: “Religion is a snare and a racket”
While I agree with what you’re saying about the JW religion in general, please don’t let their beliefs drive any feelings you may have towards Christianity in general.
People (including Christians) are imperfect, and while we often should be the best picture of Christianity to non-Christians, we often aren’t, which is our fault. However, please don’t look at the worst of us, and think that’s how all Christians (or all Christianity) are.
This is a very heartfelt article. I decided to read because I have some Jahovah witnesses coming to my door often. Although I am not swayed by their niceness I am saddened by the single mindedness they have.
It is a shame that your mom can’t see that if she believes in God you as her children are a reflection of her love for her so called GOD. If she can’t treat you with the reflection she feels of her GOD her devotion to GOD is all in vain.
I was raised Catholic and left to persue life on my own. Found Vaishnavism..like Hindu..my parents disowned me…took about 10 years to come around…
I feel people who are so scared to let anything else into their inner circle have no real conviction in the first place. IF you truely believe you could read or walk anywhere and not be affected by the circumstances.
God cant be so secretarian..and selfish
No matter what you may feel you are beautiful….
My prayers for you…
Although I can guess Brad will not be returning to read this, I’d like to share that this single-mindedness, this inability to accept other sources of information, this absolute assuredness that the self is correct… is a trait of all religions. It is at the very root of religion.
While the situation of the author (disownership of a child over difference-of-religion) may be uncommon, although far more common than you seem willing to admit (in my history, I have encountered the situation more times than I can count, and I am not arrogant enough to assume my existence is unique or uncommon).
Do not fool yourself into thinking that atheism is borne of aversion. Lack of belief (or belief in a lack) is caused either by upbringing or by critical consideration. Emotion may cause a temporary unwillingness towards belief, but emotions fade, and unless a solid opinion to the contrary is formed and justified by an individual, a belief will remain a belief.
I came across your videos on youtube while looking for senseless distraction only not to further work on my PhD thesis… as an Ex-JW myself since nine years I was not often thinking about all I left behind: the fears, the anger, shouting and tears and the like. As you did I found my peace of mind in science and atheism or even more: the complete refusal of any kind of dogmatism.
But your videos and now this blog touched me in an uncommon way because I’m facing kindred problems when I look upon my family (most of them JW - in german there’s a saying which does not function in english language: “Weil Zeugen immer Zeugen zeugen (Because witnesses are always fathering witnesses).”). Anyway it’s hard to talk to my grandparents without being confronted that all the world’s going mad and I must know where this must lead to. When I was 23 I made a deal with my parents that at least they don’t confront me anymore this way. And it worked out fine for a couple of years. But it’s a strange kind of relationship: they know, I’m a smoker, but they don’t want to see me smoking so every time I’m at my former home I have to hide. They know I’m doing my research (and they’re proud their son is the first one with a university degree and a published book they can show to neighbours and friends) but they don’t want to know about (could be apostate). They know I’m engaged in politics but they don’t want to know about. They know I’m gay but their greatest fear is that I could be lucky with a man (my mother recently told me on the phone, audibly drowned in tears, that she had a really bad nightmare and it turned out that this nightmare was about me: obviously happy with a man on my side - I was voiceless about something that terrible…).
Anyway I decided that this can’t go on like this. If I want a relationship to my parents and not a bigot facade of family life I have to talk with them - taking into account that we could probably backslide into the wellknown rhythm of quarrel and silence. I’m convinced that the most important basis for this is given though I love them and they love me back. Mainly for this reason I feel so sad about all this please-don’t-talk-your-mind-stuff. And for this reason this conversation on the phone between you and your mother touched me that much that I was about to cry.
Unfortunately my brother commited suicide as a WJ when I was on the move to talk to my parents about all that. I don’t wanted to be selfish: obviously there was a current and lasting problem that was bigger than mine. We just had to stay together to cope the situation. But at the same time there grew a new anger because I’m convinced that this suicide was evitable - with more honesty and less religious restrictions. What a double windmill!
However, I just made this kind of confession (I hope my english is not to ramshackle to express myself) to express my feelings and to thank you for your engaged and convincing work and writing on the topic.
Your Ex-brother…
You really struck a nerve there, you handled it well. I’m glad she called back though. It shows that a part of her doesn’t want to leave her children behind, despite what her religion teaches.
Wow, this is so close to what my mom said to me! The thing is she was DF’d at the time and trying to get reinstated. Here is the EMAIL my sisters and I got from her almost two years ago now….
Dear girls, I am writing to all of you at once so that I dont forget or word differently and you think that I feel differently towards one over the other.
I want to start out saying that I love you very very much and I miss you soo terribly. I think about you all every day and wish that we could be together like we were before. I know that you all know that we are trying our best to be reinstated and live our lives in a way that is pleasing to Jehovah. You know that I believe with all my heart that this is the truth and that this is the only way to live and have ever lasting life.
It hurts my heart so much to see that you girls do not believe that any more but you are adults and make your own way in life as we all do as we get older and leave the nest. You have been raised knowing the scriptures and what the Bible and Jehovah says about what we need to do in our daily lives to please him and keep our selves and the congregation clean, so as much as it breaks my heart I have to tell you that I have decided that to serve Jehovah and do what is right in his eyes I have to not associate with you any more.
You all know that your life is in opposition to Jehovah and the scriptures why. I am not in any way judging you because I know that my life has not be in harmony with his will either and that is why we are in the position that we are in. I love you all so very much and it is my hope and prayer that you will realize like I did that there is nothing and no one in this world that is worth losing Jehovah and that precious relationship with him.
Please do not think that I in any way have lost any love for you because I havent. I just need to serve Jehovah and do what is right in his eyes. I know that you girls love (15 yr old sister) and (9 year old sister) as much as they love you. And I dont want you to feel that I am being a hypocrit or mean like you did of your dad, but I have to ask that you do not try to contact them or if (15 yr old sister) does try to get in touch with you that you let her know that you cant talk to her. I know in time as she grows older and gets on her own she will have to make her own decisions as to her life, but while she lives with me I want her to do her best at serving Jehovah also.
Please know that I love you and always will and miss you with all my heart. I look forward to the day when we can be together again.
With all my heart, mom
….. And she wonders why I think that the “organization” are heartless hypocrits!!
Wow! That was heart wrenching. I’ll comment back later. Right now I’m speechless…
I go through this conversation, verbatum, every other week. EXACTLY
Ii is pointless. ANY source of info against eh Watchtower is APOSTATE, even if its just plain science, or common sense. It cant be won.
they truly will love the WT over their kids, and yet cry becasue they have “lost” them to the world.
It is sick and sad
***sigh***
Even though I was disfellowshipped about 27 years ago, I still feel pain from the rejection of my family and of the rejection of the Witnesses who at the time were my life as I knew it. Sometimes I think I have gotten over it and then something happens that makes me feel any type of rejection and I relive that dreadful feeling. I was raised a third generation Witness. I think I had my doubts for a long time; but, was afraid to let myself think any other way. I finally went to a therapist who helped me to be not afraid to examine and think for myself. I went to a library and looked up everything I could find on Witnesses. I started reading the Bible from the beginning without the fear. Oh wow, I thought, if I wasn’t told this was the “truth” and had just picked up this book and started reading it I would have thought it was crazy nonsense.
I guess I traded the fear I felt being a Witness for the pain of being rejected by practically all the people I felt loved me. But I couldn’t live a lie. It was the right decision for me.
Both my parents have died now. I tried to talk my mother out of being a Witness for a few years and finally felt that it was useless. It was her life and she was getting old. She did have happiness with JW’s, even if it wasn’t true. Even if she didn’t get to associate with her daughter. Probably one of the most painful things she said to me was that if I had been living back in the time that the Bible was written I would have been stoned.
I’ve tried being a pagan, an atheist, an agnostic. I definitely am no longer a christian.
Right now I believe there is something that you can draw energy from. I have no proof of this. I just want to believe it. I can’t even say that I won’t feel differently tomorrow.
Once in awhile I feel that pain of rejection. Most of the time I love this earth and being alive.
I wish you all a peaceful heart
I wish I had a dollar for every time I had this conversation with my mother and father. It’s very hard to watch them continue to be blindly misled by an organization that manipulates people into a blind following.
Excellent point on the creation book, which independent book reviewers have called one of the most poorly written arguments for creation that has been written.
The Jehovah’s Witnesses are not an elaborate conspiracy that want to hurt you, they really have what they think are your best interests at heart. And that’s what makes talking to my parents so hard. I know they have what they think are my best interests at heart. And you can see that even through all of their brainwashed circular logic that just doesn’t hold up when looked at critically. Even though you know you are doing the right thing, you still feel that rejection every day. And that, is the hardest part.
It’s all so obvious and simple: You’re dealing with a cult member, who has been brainwashed, and who has been trained to reject rationality and critical thinking in favor of declared dogma, and to accept “information” from only one source.
When people do that to themselves (or allow it to be done to them) it’s rare for the process to be reversed.
I have to say that, if it were my mom….eventually, I would just walk away. Why brutalize yourself by keeping your heartstrings attached to someone who has made themselves into a “thing” at the service of some organization? Anyone who has given up their instinct to love their children has given up their humanity.
Moxie, I respect your beliefs(or lack thereof since you’re an atheist) and I actually agree with most of what you say. I think you are wrong for telling all of that shit to your mother. You are a female and therefore are weak when it comes to controlling your emotions. You should let your mom stay a steadfast JW if thats what she wants to do. It is wrong for you to try and change her beliefs this late in the game, you’re only going to cause more family problems and division between the two of you. It is hard but you have to keep your thoughts to yourself or share them with other ex JW’s when you want to vent, but going in on your mother like you did was WRONG. Older people need things to believe in, and when your mom has been a JW for so long you attempting to change her is going to cause emotional problems for her in her old age. Let her keep a stable life as much as possible, you are young and therefore can take more abuse. DEAL WITH YOUR FEELINGS, DO NOT VENT ON YOUR MOTHER SHIFTING THE STRESS FROM YOUR SHOULDERS TO HERS!
I dont agree with then above. JW reason that is never too late to change your relgion. Example if you were catholic they will expect you to study and change no matter what age you are. but when you try to see an mature age JW see the truth of the W …the above is noted…oh they are too old and should be left alone… once again such hypocritical reasoning J … The WT breaks up families in this way… shunning kids from parents & visa versa…how can that be healthy?
The WT wants to spread ‘TRUTH’but when ‘Truth’ is spread regarding their flip flop teachings and changes in reasoning over time (which has impacted many people & lives) they dont wnat to know that kind of ‘Truth’ about themselves as a misleading organisation.
YOUR MOM AND YOU ARE NOT ALONE.I HAVE HAD ALMOST IDENTICAL CONVERSATIONS WITH MY OWN JW MOTHER(MANY YEARS AFTER LEAVING).I WILL ALWAYS WISH THAT RELIGION HAD NOT STOLEN MY LOVED ONES AND SUPPORT SYSTEM. AS A YOUNG 16 YEAR OLD RUN AWAY,AT THE TIME IT SEEMED MY ONLY REAL OPTION AFTER DECIDING NOT TO OFF MYSELF.I DID SPEAK TO MY MOTHER EVEY NOW AND THEN AFTER LEAVING ANG RETURNED AT 21 FOR TWO YEARS(BUT NOT TO THE RELIGION)IT WAS VERY DIFFICULT FOR MANY YEARS AND STILL IS.I MISS THE FAMILY I SHOULD HAVE HAD.SADNESS WILL ALWAYS BE…….
YOUR MOM AND YOU ARE NOT ALONE.I HAVE HAD ALMOST IDENTICAL CONVERSATIONS WITH MY OWN JW MOTHER(MANY YEARS AFTER LEAVING).I WILL ALWAYS WISH THAT RELIGION HAD NOT STOLEN MY LOVED ONES AND SUPPORT SYSTEM. AS A YOUNG 16 YEAR OLD RUN AWAY,AT THE TIME IT SEEMED MY ONLY REAL OPTION AFTER DESIDING NOT TO OFF MYSELF.I DID SPEAK TO MY MOTHER EVERY NOW AND THEN AFTER LEAVING ANG RETURNED AT 21 FOR TWO YEARS(BUT NOT TO THE RELIGION)IT WAS VERY DIFFICULT FOR MANY YEARS AND STILL IS.I MISS THE FAMILY I SHOULD HAVE HAD.SADNESS WILL ALWAYS BE…….
I’m about to be kicked out by my JW mother when I turn 18. I’m probably going to move with my boyfriend on the other side of the country to live with him and his dad. My mother has already cut off all of our “wordly” family, so she’s the last piece of family I have besides my sisters, which is heartwrenching because I realize that I have to cut her completely out of my life. No matter what, she’s going to feel like she’s “lost” me. I feel really bad for leaving my 12-year-old sisters in this repressive and horrible environment. How any organization that makes it’s believers do shit like this could claim itself loving, just, and “the truth” is beyond me.
Matt…you didn’t get it…..this “goodbye” was for ever…. for rest of this woman’s life’s.
For J.
I am sorry, but you don’t know what you are talking about. Kids in JW families goes thru hell and later in life never get over it. And there families will always keep hurting and brainwashing you, even if is that 20 years later.
For Damo:
It is almost impossible after JW change religion, because the fear, what is inside you for life, dont’t let you.
AND YES! MY PARENTS TOLD ME THAT THEY LOVE GOD MORE THEN ME, AND THEY MEAN’T IT, NEVER TALK TO ME AGAIN (I AM ALMOST 40 YEARS OLD).I LOST ALL MY FAMILY, ALL 16 PEOPLE, BECAUSE THEY ALL ARE JW. I MOVED ANOTHER CONTINENT TO LIVE AND I STILL CAN’T FORGET THIS FIST 18 YEARS OF MY LIFE.
I AM WONDER IF IT IS SOME COUNSELING FOR EX-JW.
For J:
…she didn’t “SHIFTING THE STRESS FROM YOUR SHOULDERS TO HERS”, she just looking for love her own mother and trying get the love back.
Sherry:
Exactly! ……” there is nothing and no one in this world that is worth losing Jehovah and that precious relationship with him.”……….and it hurt bad, hear this bull***, from your parent’s.
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