Conversations with my Dad - Cognitive Dissonance
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Author: Moxie
Tags: atheist, Cognitive Dissonance, Jehovahs Witness, Shunning
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I’ll get to my point in a round about way here… Here’s a little bit of back story first for those of you who may be new to this blog: I have two brothers, both younger. I was the first to move away from home, years and years ago. Recently my youngest brother, Chris, left the society and my parent’s house and has moved in with me. That leaves my other brother (we’ll call him Joe), the golden-child Ministerial Servant who has lived at home for 24 years. He’s finally moved out and has gone to Montreal (that’s a long, long way from our parent’s home).
So Joe left on Saturday via Vancouver (where I live) and along the way my family stopped by briefly to deliver a piece of furniture (we’d been planning this exchange for some time). You see, this was a big deal for me since I haven’t seen my parents for more than a year, and it has been several years since I last saw Joe. When they arrived, I was stunned that I couldn’t even recognize Joe’s voice, he sounded like a complete stranger. I must have been standing there just staring at him with my mouth hanging open because he looked at me and asked if I was okay. All told, he was surprisingly civil, which was unusual for him, at least from what I had experienced years past. Anyway, my parents who are normally 100% enforcers of shunning were all hugs and smiles, and very happy to see Chris and I. I’m always amazed that they can act as though nothing was wrong, they seem to latch onto an official reason to associate with me and then they are as sweet as pie. I have no complaints since I love those moments, I miss them so much and if this is all I get of them, I’ll soak it all up. Anyway it was great to see them. Oh and my boyfriend (also exjw/atheist) got to meet my entire family! (Poor guy).
But back to the story. Yesterday I took a chance and called to speak with my Mom. I know from speaking with her on Saturday that she’s going to have a hard time dealing with her now empty nest. So I wanted to call and just see how she was doing and let her know that I love her. Well… I didn’t get that far since my Dad answered the phone.
We started talking about the empty nest and how they were handling it… my Dad was surprisingly open and talkative and said that Mom was okay but that they are finding it hard, but he’s happy now because he always gets control of the remote control.
The conversation went on for a while and unavoidably we ended up talking about religion. Ironically I was the one trying to avoid it. To make a long story short, he said that what I needed to do was look for answers. Obviously he was leading me to look for the kinds of answers the society would provide, answers which I told him were constantly in flux and intensely interpretive. I went on to tell him that it was that very process: looking for answers and reading all kinds of opinions and perspectives - from the JWs to other religions to secularists; that ultimately drove me away from religion entirely. We kept talking for a while and I could tell that he was a little unnerved when I told him plainly that I didn’t believe in god or the bible but he laughed when I said that at least he didn’t have to worry about me becoming a mormon or converting to islam.
To cap it all off, at the end of our conversation he told me that he admired me and the way I thought and reasoned things out. He went on to explain that he wasn’t trying to flatter me, but that he always thought that I had smarts; and that he is proud of me. Those words obviously confuse, and while on one hand I’m thrilled that my papa thinks well of me (I’ll always be a daddy’s girl), on the other hand I don’t understand how he can say because of the way those sentiments conflict with his professed beliefs. This is not the first time he’s said something like this… he gets reflective, and says these things thoughtfully. My Dad’s the kind of guy who doesn’t pay anyone lip service - he doesn’t blow smoke up anyone’s ass, ever.
Sooooo, my thoughts are this…. how can he say this on one hand, and on the other tell me that I am foolish. How can he say he is proud of me in spite of the fact that I contradict everything he believes in. How can he admire my thinking faculties if I use them to reject the WTS?
Is this the definition of cognitive dissonance or is this just some tactic? He’s so dead set in believing the watchtower doctrine, but I wonder, is there a teeny tiny glimmer of hope? Or is that my real Dad surfacing if only for a very brief moment in time?
That’s why I titled this thread “cognitive dissonance”. While my Dad’s comments are fundamentally confusing to me… I feel like he means what he says even when he contradicts himself. He had a horrible childhood and sometimes I think he clings to the society because he sees it as a protection for his family. Well, now that he’s lost two out of three kids and has an empty nest, we’ll see what happens. (Don’t worry though, I’m not holding my breath).
In trying to anaylize this I see that my Dad can acknowledge that the way I think and reason is sound; and he admires that, but on the other hand my conclusions are opposite from his. I think that’s what he can’t reconcile the two, and why I find it so confusing. I’ve never told him that he has or should change his mind; I’ve never suggested that he change his beliefs. Rather, I simply ask that he respect my position as a result of my own extensive, unbiased and evidence-based study. That my viewpoints are not based on ignorant assumption, or that I have been led astray without spending years studying and independently looking into the matter focusing my attentions on credible sources. I have spent nearly a decade studying religion intensely and in recent years have added science to the mix. This has nothing at all to do with trying to turn him into an atheist but everything to do with the fact that I just want him to acknowledge that my opinions are my own; that I’m not some wishy-washy girl who’s just gotten some crazy whim of an idea in her head!
The weirdest thing is that my Dad is extremely intelligent and has a background in a scientific field of study. Chris and I have talked about this many times. We can’t understand how our Dad can now ignore or ignorantly disregard scientific facts especially with his background. (I should clarify that when I talk about science here, I’m talking about things like the fact that mankind has been on the earth for much longer than 6,000 years, and that a global flood is a myth, etc, etc.)
Needless to say, it’s confusing. Like I said, I won’t be holding my breath but I suppose the nice thing is that somewhere deep down, he’s still just my Dad; the society evidently hasn’t got 100% of him at least not all the time. There are little pure moments where he peeks through and even if he doesn’t know why he feels the way he does, he can’t deny it and so I think that is why he makes little comments like he does. After all he’s still a father even if he is an elder. He’s told me that he has flashbacks to the first time he held me (as a thrashing and wailing newborn) and that remembers feeling like nothing else in the world mattered. I am grateful that if only for a blink of an eye, that man can still come out. If there’s one reason why I hate religion, it’s for taking my family away. My father’s a brilliant man… what a waste.
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Of course you know you dad much better than I do however, what I got out of this is that he is proud of you for making the decsision you have made. I think it’s true of many people of faith that logic tells them it’s not real, yet fear holds them. It may be that your dad knows all the things you have discovered over the last 10 years but lacks the willpower to take the step you took. I know there are many christains in my family of different denominations who would be in the same boat.
Good story.
Great article, Moxie. I have had some vaguely similar moments with my wife who is still a JW. Still — as with you — the contradictions are perplexing. She gets my reasons for leaving the organization and seems to agree that they make sense, yet she doesn’t seem interested in leaving the Society herself. Not that I’m trying to get her to leave. That often backfires in my experience. But that “switch” of reason seems to flip off when she points it at herself and the Society. I think she’s comfortable there and thinks life without it is too scary.
I think many people who lose their faith in the Society stay for this very reason.
It’s the one that I find the most difficult to comprehend.
The last paragraph was amazing. It gave me a new perspective on the relationship I have with my father.
Thank you and good luck.
I think there are many ‘thinkers’ within the JW congregations around the world that are so sadly wrapped up in the inner workings of JW life that they genuinely struggle to balance their inner most thoughts with the doctrines/flip-floppings of the WTS.
Your dad sounds like such a person.
For him to acknowledge pride in you even though you’ve rejected everything he believes is a step in the right direction.
As for not believing in a global flood or the age of the earth, I’m a Christian and a believer in the Bible and I reject the idea of a global flood and the earth only being 6k years old.
Hi Moxie,
I do not have your sad experiences with shunning etc. Although my father’s family got involved with JWs before WWII. He, although always sympatehtic to them, and quite religious, never joined, resenting the ban on “independent thinking” within the organized Watchtower community. My parents are both academics.
I have great respect for many of their bibical interpretations, though decidedly not all of them. We have a quite good relationship with all of our greater family associated with JW’s.
Although of course, it is difficult to discuss with them matters relating to Raymond Franz, Barbara Anderson, Silentlambs etc. That is: the worldview of many JW, but not all, hinges on the belief of a divinely directed organization. That is their fundamental weakness.
I guess I am quite lucky in that my parents have always remained open-minded people, and although paradoxically having brought many to baptism as JW’s, have never joined up themselves.
I might add that I am taking a PhD in Physics, and this brings me to my core point (which is very well -known observation) :
Vey bright people are often quite as, if not more religious, than the average person.
The fact is for instance, that, Sir Isaac Newton, broadly recognized as the greatest scientific mind of all time, was extremely religious, and much more devoted to Bible study, than study of the natural world (counting published words on each subject) The strange fact is, if Newton were alive today, he would find himself most at home, theologically, within an Arian neo-Millerite or adventist-type Christian denomination, like Jehovah’s witnesses, although he would likely shy away from their organizational excesses.
Unlike JW’s however, Newton though date-setting of the end a complete folly.
About Neo-Darwinism: While agreeing on the findings of Darwin regarding natural selection, and survival of the fittest. I find that biologists today tend to draw too far-reaching conclusions from these facts. There is a tendency of his followers to substitute scientific dogma for religious dogma. The power of science is to disprove wrongs not prove things correct, as Karl Popper made clear.. Although human civillization seems to be older than 6000 years, it is clear that it is not much older, and the Bible record of early history, may not be as far fetched as many (other) mythological tales.
Of course the tales of young earth creationists have been refuted comprehensibly by modern science.
It is today impossible to work within the biological sciences without accepting fully the theory of evolution. Thus, ideas of more direct theistic influence comes mainly from mathematicians and physicists, many of whom believe in an ordering force in the universe. The maverick, though eminent physicist Steven Wolfram for instance, seems to believe that much of the complexity in the universe comes from other sources than Darwinian Natural selection.
I believe it is natural, having been severely hurt by a religious group, to reject all
it stands for, but that is not always the rational way. Life, in my view, is optimally a journey towards truth, love, and greater understanding, and we should not shrink from accepting valid points, even from unwelcome sources.
Good luck in your life’s jouney
Bjorn says,
“Very bright people are often quite as, if not more religious, than the average person.”
Good post Biorn, but on the above point, after 27 years of helping people out of cults, I don’t really see any correlation between the two. There are Brights who are religious and those who aren’t. What I’ve found is that people tend to compartmentalize their feelings about life and others, so that a scientist can be a near genius at holograms and an idiot at recipes or video games. I don’t think I’ve ever met an intelligent person that is smart in most of the lesser issues of life. Sometimes the more they concentrate on one thing, the more other issues are neglected. So they can be academic on one thing and need potty training on another. :-))
We tend to look up to others who have a lot of experience, and who have made a success of their lives, and wish to emulate them. Therein lies the danger: if you are not careful you will inherit their idiosyncrasies, their paradigm of the world, and even their bad attitudes towards others.
All the more reason to look at sound arguments rather than personalities. Put the arguments to the test. Entertain the critics. Let the defense have their say. It is a test of the maturity of the listener to be able to see through the personalities AND the campaigning, to the real heart of the argument. The bluster of intelligent, successful people is often adopted as truth quicker than the personal opinion of a gossipy retail clerk. We are so readily swayed at times!
Both religious and atheistic authors will have bogus personality traits and non-sequiter arguments. The same is true in the realm of theology and interpreting the bible. How to find your way? Study the ways people fool themselves and others; study mind control, magic, and journalism. It will give a good toolbox to protect yourself from others who may not even realize their own poor arguments. Then the real potential factoids stand out, and you can walk away from the rest. Just my opinion. :-))
Randy
How can people hold conflicting viewpoints?
Because they are people.
No one is immune to this.
As an aside, we can admire the skill involved in any given occupation regardless of what we may think about that occupation.
If you continue to process things you’ll find that the fabric of everything comes apart. Some people know this at an instinctive level and avoid the path.
http://www.coldbacon.com/pics/kliban/bkboredom.gif
Others like myself were born to destroy every thought by taking it apart.
http://www.coldbacon.com/pics/kliban/bkidea.jpg
Might I recommend “At the Minds Limit”, by Jean Amery?
This makes me tear up. I miss my dad the most. Me and my mother don’t really get along, but when we talk about religion she takes the same position as your father.. That is definitely cognitive dissonance.
Exellent observation of the clash between two mental positions: his love and admiration for a smart daughter (not fake, not flattery)— and the standard JW position that all Ex-JWs are evil and crazy or stupid.
I’ve observed that JWs have a dual personality. They are not consciously aware that their beliefs are partitioned, but a dual belief-system is the only way to survive holding fundamentalist extremist JW views in a modern secular democratic society.
If they admitted what they really believe, they would exit the sect on principle. The social pressure is what keeps them doing lip-service and “believing” to the core. Orwell described this in his book 1984, when Winston Smith is being tortured. The torturer holds up two fingers and says “how many fingers?” Smith says “Two” until the torture works and breaks his spirit. He finally switches into a good sheeple when he breaks down weeping begging to be TOLD how many fingers the torturer WANTS there to be.
The successful conversion process is to create this second personality which needs to believe what it is told to. And it believes to the core, despite the conscious waking rational mind’s ability to say “Brown Sugar.” Graig in Enderby BC
You have to have gotten your smarts from somewhere–so it’s probably your Dad. One trouble with “smarts” is that they provide plenty of room in the head for multiple compartments.
So, the difference between you and you Dad isn’t smarts; it’s integrity. You insist that everything in your head be integrated–no logical conflicts or contradictions; he, less so.
What happened to you Dad? Life–especially modern life–can sometimes eat away at integrity. And once you lose it, it can be hard to regain.
The best thing you can do for the remaining “captives” among your family is to let them see (in your eyes, not in your worldly successes/failures) the value and outcome of having intelligence and integrity: Satisfaction, meaning, confidence, joy, self-reliance…the sense of making your own destiny and owning your own life.
It’s always recognizable (and it’s very evident in your videos). And it’s a thing that people SEE and ABSORB–even if they’re not immediately conscious of having done so.
If there’s one reason why I hate religion, it’s for taking my family away. My father’s a brilliant man… what a waste.
It could be viewed that “humanism” took your family away, not his religion. After all, he hasn’t changed. You did.
You wonder how he can ignore “facts.” Perhaps he pays more attention to a different set of facts than you do. For, facts are not consistent. Different facts point in different directions. Many “facts” change over time, augmented or even reversed by fresher insights. I am very fond of the Max Planck quote:
“People think new truths are accepted when the proponents are able to convince the opponents. Instead, the opponents of the truth gradually die, and a new generation comes along who is familiar with the idea.”
People are not so rational as they imagine themselves to be. Humans run with a herd mentality, as Planck acknowledged. In the end, it is not logic, but an interplay of logic and heart. Perhaps make that logic and emotion. And it’s a confused mess of a world, getting more so all the time, with ever more conflicting notions vehemently expressed, so that it’s easy, given human limitations and stimulated by different ideas to come to different conclusions, which are sometimes tentative, sometimes not.
In the end, he likely realizes this, and doesn’t care to judge. None of us do. Nor is there any reason to. The Society has not ‘got him.’ They don’t ‘control 100% of his thinking.’ That’s paranoa. He respects their leadership because they appear to have a handle on something that nobody else does, that’s all. And yet, he also appreciates you because you are smart, capable, decent, caring, etc. And you are his daughter. And the ballgame ain’t over.
Frankly, I think cognitive dissonance is just a means of dissing the other side. For everyone is right in their own eyes. Therefore, the other side, we always feel, must be reeling from horrible cognitive dissonance. How can they cope? But, as stated, it all depends upon how you prioritize facts. They don’t all point in the same direction, and the human record of uncovering them is dismal. It would not be such a messed up world, otherwise.
Just guesses, really. I don’t know anyone involved. But I know Jehovah’s Witnesses.
It sounds like your Dad loves and misses you, in his own way he is in fear of being displeasing to Jehovah.
I left but my husband blames himself for it, but I feel it is suppose to be this way. Since I was a little child I just never believed everything, like living in a paradise having all kinds of wild animals in your yard so many wild stories we grew up hearing, God is going to give you anything you want. But it just never made since Wild animals belong free so how could I now own one?
I understand you miss your Dad, but you are going to have to move on without him. To keep hoping he will come around is a daydream, he is trapped and most likely always going to be, just like my Husband.
I am with you I do hate Religion but I do not hate God, I do believe that one day just as they say all Religion will have to come to an end because it hurts too many people. We will have a spiritual relationship with God and it will not require a building or a group of people it will require you and your heart of goodness.
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