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	<title>Comments on: Religion and the Environment</title>
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	<link>http://www.exjehovahswitness.net/2008/06/religion-and-the-environment</link>
	<description>Life &#38; healing after leaving the Jehovah's Witnesses...</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 07 Feb 2012 09:04:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Sunny</title>
		<link>http://www.exjehovahswitness.net/2008/06/religion-and-the-environment/comment-page-1#comment-198</link>
		<dc:creator>Sunny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jun 2008 04:31:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://exjw.wordpress.com/?p=184#comment-198</guid>
		<description>Moxie,

Back when I was taking environmental history, I ran across a fellow named Lynn White who argued that Western religion was the cause of much environmental destruction.  The religion was the foundation of much of Western society, driving actions that saw the land as something separate which could be "raped".  If I recall correctly, it is claimed that man is given dominion over the world to do with as he pleases.  The argument is a bit more than that however and I direct you to http://www.counterbalance.net/enviro/intro-frame.html.

Perhaps it is better said that religion is a reflection of man's inner self.  We possess a destructive and exploitative nature on the whole.  Religion is simply another mask for it.

What should be addressed is the root cause after all.  Because I have some familiarity with genetics and other fields of knowledge I can say that on the whole, humans are a dangerous wild card with its inhibitions removed.

Fair winds,
Sunny Lam

Ffenyx Rising
http://ffenyx.wordpress.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/sunnylam</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Moxie,</p>
<p>Back when I was taking environmental history, I ran across a fellow named Lynn White who argued that Western religion was the cause of much environmental destruction.  The religion was the foundation of much of Western society, driving actions that saw the land as something separate which could be &#8220;raped&#8221;.  If I recall correctly, it is claimed that man is given dominion over the world to do with as he pleases.  The argument is a bit more than that however and I direct you to <a href="http://www.counterbalance.net/enviro/intro-frame.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.counterbalance.net/enviro/intro-frame.html</a>.</p>
<p>Perhaps it is better said that religion is a reflection of man&#8217;s inner self.  We possess a destructive and exploitative nature on the whole.  Religion is simply another mask for it.</p>
<p>What should be addressed is the root cause after all.  Because I have some familiarity with genetics and other fields of knowledge I can say that on the whole, humans are a dangerous wild card with its inhibitions removed.</p>
<p>Fair winds,<br />
Sunny Lam</p>
<p>Ffenyx Rising<br />
<a href="http://ffenyx.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow">http://ffenyx.wordpress.com</a><br />
<a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/sunnylam" rel="nofollow">http://www.linkedin.com/in/sunnylam</a></p>
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		<title>By: frank</title>
		<link>http://www.exjehovahswitness.net/2008/06/religion-and-the-environment/comment-page-1#comment-197</link>
		<dc:creator>frank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 20:30:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://exjw.wordpress.com/?p=184#comment-197</guid>
		<description>Hi Moxi:

I have listened to a couple of your you tube videos and read this sight.  I am sorry that the control freakery of the Watchtower has destroyed your family life, at least your former one.  I to disassociated myself from JW's but for a different reason.  I do still believe in God, but I understand why some don't.  Many are confused by the apparent clash of the idea of a Creator and modern thought and education including evolution etc..  A Good website that helped me to see the harmony between the two is http://www.biblecodeintro.com/  If you read it, I think it will make sense to you, even if in the end you do not necessarily agree with it's conclusions.  Thanks for your input!

Frank</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Moxi:</p>
<p>I have listened to a couple of your you tube videos and read this sight.  I am sorry that the control freakery of the Watchtower has destroyed your family life, at least your former one.  I to disassociated myself from JW&#8217;s but for a different reason.  I do still believe in God, but I understand why some don&#8217;t.  Many are confused by the apparent clash of the idea of a Creator and modern thought and education including evolution etc..  A Good website that helped me to see the harmony between the two is <a href="http://www.biblecodeintro.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.biblecodeintro.com/</a>  If you read it, I think it will make sense to you, even if in the end you do not necessarily agree with it&#8217;s conclusions.  Thanks for your input!</p>
<p>Frank</p>
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		<title>By: Kanoa</title>
		<link>http://www.exjehovahswitness.net/2008/06/religion-and-the-environment/comment-page-1#comment-196</link>
		<dc:creator>Kanoa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jun 2008 19:50:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://exjw.wordpress.com/?p=184#comment-196</guid>
		<description>Although this may be a "parody", it's sentiments are pretty much true to life, mirroring the beliefs of some over zealous Christians.

They don't want you to actually think about things logically.  They don't want you to be "educated".

The great thing about the bible, is it's translated from another language, over 2000 years ago, in old English.  This means that basically no one really understands anything from it, and can therefore bend it's meaning to fit their purposes.

Isn't it funny, that in all religions, you hear a person say "God" will do this, and "God" says this..... actually, what I hear is just another human speaking for God.  And in the end they always talk about sin, the devil, dying, and killing.  This doesn't sound very "Godly" to me.  This sounds like human motives, and ideals masquerading as devinity.

It doesn't make sense that a God would make a home for us (Earth) but wants us to destroy it. Then that's just like a Hitler perspective...."God told me to rid the world of the Jews".  Oh really?  Well God told me, that you're a fucking insane mass murder.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Although this may be a &#8220;parody&#8221;, it&#8217;s sentiments are pretty much true to life, mirroring the beliefs of some over zealous Christians.</p>
<p>They don&#8217;t want you to actually think about things logically.  They don&#8217;t want you to be &#8220;educated&#8221;.</p>
<p>The great thing about the bible, is it&#8217;s translated from another language, over 2000 years ago, in old English.  This means that basically no one really understands anything from it, and can therefore bend it&#8217;s meaning to fit their purposes.</p>
<p>Isn&#8217;t it funny, that in all religions, you hear a person say &#8220;God&#8221; will do this, and &#8220;God&#8221; says this&#8230;.. actually, what I hear is just another human speaking for God.  And in the end they always talk about sin, the devil, dying, and killing.  This doesn&#8217;t sound very &#8220;Godly&#8221; to me.  This sounds like human motives, and ideals masquerading as devinity.</p>
<p>It doesn&#8217;t make sense that a God would make a home for us (Earth) but wants us to destroy it. Then that&#8217;s just like a Hitler perspective&#8230;.&#8221;God told me to rid the world of the Jews&#8221;.  Oh really?  Well God told me, that you&#8217;re a fucking insane mass murder.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://www.exjehovahswitness.net/2008/06/religion-and-the-environment/comment-page-1#comment-195</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 21:02:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://exjw.wordpress.com/?p=184#comment-195</guid>
		<description>I am concerned that many Christians have attitudes not to far from the "parody" you quote.  However, it's not true of all.  Bill Moyers did a special on PBS on "Green Evangelicals," which is worth seeing (http://www.pbs.org/moyers/moyersonamerica/green/index.html)

I have a blog where I frequently post on environmental topics: (alterfaith.wordpress.com) Click on the Category "Environment", if you are interested.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am concerned that many Christians have attitudes not to far from the &#8220;parody&#8221; you quote.  However, it&#8217;s not true of all.  Bill Moyers did a special on PBS on &#8220;Green Evangelicals,&#8221; which is worth seeing (http://www.pbs.org/moyers/moyersonamerica/green/index.html)</p>
<p>I have a blog where I frequently post on environmental topics: (alterfaith.wordpress.com) Click on the Category &#8220;Environment&#8221;, if you are interested.</p>
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		<title>By: Falterer</title>
		<link>http://www.exjehovahswitness.net/2008/06/religion-and-the-environment/comment-page-1#comment-184</link>
		<dc:creator>Falterer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 10:48:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://exjw.wordpress.com/?p=184#comment-184</guid>
		<description>"It looks like she did realize it was a parody."

I don't know how I missed that before--she spent an entire paragraph spelling it out.  D'oh!

Most Jehovah's Witnesses I've met were concerned about the environment, but saw global warming as another sign that we're "in the last days."  A few felt a positive environmental attitude was part of their duty to "subdue the earth", but, yes, believed it's ultimately up to God to sort such issues out.  Some used that to justify a less considerate lifestyle, while others made personal effort to conserve the environment a part of their Christian attitude.

Clearly, different Christians interpret the same Holy Book in different ways.  But if you increase the scope of the question to ask whether religion has mostly positive or negative precepts, you'll still find it's a mixed bag.  Religions need some positive precepts to survive, otherwise all their subscribers would die; it's not a case for divine origin any more than the natural selection of life on earth.  Ultimately, all religions are based on myth and superstition and make guesses about the origin of life and how it's best lived.  The generally healthier guesses survived more easily.  It's a very messy way to learn anything, including environmental conservation!  But it's why the answer will vary from person to person.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;It looks like she did realize it was a parody.&#8221;</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know how I missed that before&#8211;she spent an entire paragraph spelling it out.  D&#8217;oh!</p>
<p>Most Jehovah&#8217;s Witnesses I&#8217;ve met were concerned about the environment, but saw global warming as another sign that we&#8217;re &#8220;in the last days.&#8221;  A few felt a positive environmental attitude was part of their duty to &#8220;subdue the earth&#8221;, but, yes, believed it&#8217;s ultimately up to God to sort such issues out.  Some used that to justify a less considerate lifestyle, while others made personal effort to conserve the environment a part of their Christian attitude.</p>
<p>Clearly, different Christians interpret the same Holy Book in different ways.  But if you increase the scope of the question to ask whether religion has mostly positive or negative precepts, you&#8217;ll still find it&#8217;s a mixed bag.  Religions need some positive precepts to survive, otherwise all their subscribers would die; it&#8217;s not a case for divine origin any more than the natural selection of life on earth.  Ultimately, all religions are based on myth and superstition and make guesses about the origin of life and how it&#8217;s best lived.  The generally healthier guesses survived more easily.  It&#8217;s a very messy way to learn anything, including environmental conservation!  But it&#8217;s why the answer will vary from person to person.</p>
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		<title>By: theladymel</title>
		<link>http://www.exjehovahswitness.net/2008/06/religion-and-the-environment/comment-page-1#comment-185</link>
		<dc:creator>theladymel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 00:38:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://exjw.wordpress.com/?p=184#comment-185</guid>
		<description>Hey Moxie,

While alot of religons and religous leaders have been enviromentally conscious, or are just now becoming enviromentally aware, you are spot on when it comes to Christians not caring about the enviroment until recently. (If at all.)

When I was growing up, enviromentalists (granola, tree huggers) were grouped with the: Pro-choicers, evolutionists, feminists and democrats.

*shudder*

I remember reading an article in school about how global warming wasn't actually happening.

Now, more and more Christians are realizing the impact humans are having on the enviroment and I recently started to attend a progressive Presbyterian church (seriously--it's not a contradiction!) and they have been social and envriomental activists for 20 years.

But there still a startling(and scary) number of Christians who completely reject the idea of global warming.

Maybe they're afaid of becoming democrats... Because otherwise, it really doesn't make sense. To me, anyways.

Fun read!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Moxie,</p>
<p>While alot of religons and religous leaders have been enviromentally conscious, or are just now becoming enviromentally aware, you are spot on when it comes to Christians not caring about the enviroment until recently. (If at all.)</p>
<p>When I was growing up, enviromentalists (granola, tree huggers) were grouped with the: Pro-choicers, evolutionists, feminists and democrats.</p>
<p>*shudder*</p>
<p>I remember reading an article in school about how global warming wasn&#8217;t actually happening.</p>
<p>Now, more and more Christians are realizing the impact humans are having on the enviroment and I recently started to attend a progressive Presbyterian church (seriously&#8211;it&#8217;s not a contradiction!) and they have been social and envriomental activists for 20 years.</p>
<p>But there still a startling(and scary) number of Christians who completely reject the idea of global warming.</p>
<p>Maybe they&#8217;re afaid of becoming democrats&#8230; Because otherwise, it really doesn&#8217;t make sense. To me, anyways.</p>
<p>Fun read!</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://www.exjehovahswitness.net/2008/06/religion-and-the-environment/comment-page-1#comment-186</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 23:34:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://exjw.wordpress.com/?p=184#comment-186</guid>
		<description>"We could mock Moxie for being unable to distinguish parody"

It looks like she did realize it was a parody.  When I posted the comment I hadn't read the full article.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;We could mock Moxie for being unable to distinguish parody&#8221;</p>
<p>It looks like she did realize it was a parody.  When I posted the comment I hadn&#8217;t read the full article.</p>
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		<title>By: Seth</title>
		<link>http://www.exjehovahswitness.net/2008/06/religion-and-the-environment/comment-page-1#comment-187</link>
		<dc:creator>Seth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 17:33:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://exjw.wordpress.com/?p=184#comment-187</guid>
		<description>I agree with Kristi. If God gave dominion over to humankind as the Bible says, then humankind also has responsibility for the earth, not just "power over" it. Imagine God coming back and finding the Earth trashed by humans. "What the hell happened here?" God asks. "I made this beautiful planet and then put you on it, now it's destroyed!" "Yes," the evangelicals answer, "but you said you'd give us another, so everything's okay!"

Personally, I believe that humans are no greater or lesser part of creation than anything else, be it a beetle on the ground or a tree or the entire planet itself. All of them were created by God, and all of them are equally precious in God's sight.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Kristi. If God gave dominion over to humankind as the Bible says, then humankind also has responsibility for the earth, not just &#8220;power over&#8221; it. Imagine God coming back and finding the Earth trashed by humans. &#8220;What the hell happened here?&#8221; God asks. &#8220;I made this beautiful planet and then put you on it, now it&#8217;s destroyed!&#8221; &#8220;Yes,&#8221; the evangelicals answer, &#8220;but you said you&#8217;d give us another, so everything&#8217;s okay!&#8221;</p>
<p>Personally, I believe that humans are no greater or lesser part of creation than anything else, be it a beetle on the ground or a tree or the entire planet itself. All of them were created by God, and all of them are equally precious in God&#8217;s sight.</p>
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		<title>By: Falterer</title>
		<link>http://www.exjehovahswitness.net/2008/06/religion-and-the-environment/comment-page-1#comment-190</link>
		<dc:creator>Falterer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 14:04:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://exjw.wordpress.com/?p=184#comment-190</guid>
		<description>Yeah, it's a parody site.  It's an effect we call Poe's Law: unless we're actually told "It's a joke", parodies of fundamentalism are indistinguishable from the real thing.

We could mock Moxie for being unable to distinguish parody (if we were jerks), but shouldn't we rather be disturbed that such parody so well mimics the attitudes of the Christian Right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, it&#8217;s a parody site.  It&#8217;s an effect we call Poe&#8217;s Law: unless we&#8217;re actually told &#8220;It&#8217;s a joke&#8221;, parodies of fundamentalism are indistinguishable from the real thing.</p>
<p>We could mock Moxie for being unable to distinguish parody (if we were jerks), but shouldn&#8217;t we rather be disturbed that such parody so well mimics the attitudes of the Christian Right?</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://www.exjehovahswitness.net/2008/06/religion-and-the-environment/comment-page-1#comment-189</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 09:17:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://exjw.wordpress.com/?p=184#comment-189</guid>
		<description>It's weird this site, although being a parody, echoes the very serious sentiments JWs have expressed, especially the part about knowing the Bible makes you smarter than anyone who went to college.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s weird this site, although being a parody, echoes the very serious sentiments JWs have expressed, especially the part about knowing the Bible makes you smarter than anyone who went to college.</p>
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